Acessórios anti-derrapagem para lagartas Technic / Mindstorms

[CyberX]

=== english ===
Hi oracid.

We have at least one native french speaker here, Christophe Siquet  (account name is "csiquet", he is also Technic and Mindstorms fan) so if you need translation services feel free to ask.

I started with a D joint on each side (2 per track link) like in the 4th picture but noticed some tension in the track so i changed for the zig-zag pattern in 5th picture. When you put a D joint on each side doesn't they touch each other, making friction between the track links?

And facing down the adhesive part increases traction but catches all hairs and dust in the floor... and stops working when the adhesive disappear, no?


=== portuguẽs ====
Ola oracid

Temos pelo menos outro falante de francês aqui no forum, o Christophe Siquet,  se precisares de ajuda para tradução diz.

Comecei com uma junta D de cada lado (2 por elo) como na 4ª foto mas notei tensão na lagarta por isso mudei para o padrão zig-zag da 5ª foto.
Quando usaste 2 juntas D por elo isso não fez com que elas tocassem umas na outras e gerasse fricção?

E virar o adesivo das juntas para o chão não aumenta a tração à custa de apanhar cabelos e pó... e deixar de funcionar quando o adesivo se gastar?

[oracid]

C'est certains que c'est plus facile pour moi de parler en français, mais je pensais qu'en anglais plus de personnes me comprendraient. C'est comme vous le souhaitez.

Sur la photo, ci-dessous, vous pouvez voir un char de 7,5kg. C'est l'exemple de ce qu'il ne faut pas faire... Trop lourd !
Néanmoins, l'assemblage de plusieurs chenilles peut intéresser plusieurs d'entres vous.
Sur cette photo, on voit bien que j'ai mis la face autocollantes du D joint sur le coté utile des éléments de chenille. Cela augmente énormément la qualité de l'accroche.
Mais bien entendu, avant de découper le D joint, il faut retirer la bande de protection, mais également le film autocollant. C'est un peu délicat, mais avec de bons ongles, on y arrive.
Vous pouvez voir cela sur cette vidéo à 0'48, https://youtu.be/XEsIp5Va41E
L'accroche est tellement bonne que cela peut provoquer un déchenillement lors d'une rotation sur place. Pour éviter cela, il faut que la chenille soit raisonnablement tendue et que le char soit le plus léger possible. Pour éviter cela, on peut également augmenter la largeur du char, mais ce dernier point reste à démontrer.
Concernant le positionnement du D joint en alternance ou non, c'est à chacun de voir en fonction du besoin. Personnellement, aujourd'hui, je fais un grand char avec une seule chenille, et j'ai besoin d'une accroche efficace, je mets donc du D joint de chaque coté des éléments de chenille.

Voici un lien où on peut voir du D joint noir pour 7,99€, malheureusement ils ne livrent qu'en France : http://www.leroymerlin.fr/v3/p/produits ... re_&xtcr=5

[oracid]

Today the postman delivered a package.
No good.
Sorry Jorge.

[CyberX]

Je suis très curieux / Estou muito curioso

[oracid]

[quote="CyberX"]
Je suis très curieux / Estou muito curioso [/quote]
Too small !
http://www.ebay.fr/itm/111233760160?_tr ... EBIDX%3AIT

[CyberX]

Oh, understood. The rubber pads I found ("Interfer 5mm") were really a lucky find, to bad the distributor have no more the black version but still hope for the clear version:

[Compreendi. Os pitões de borracha que encontrei ("Interfer 5mmm") foram verdadeiramente uma sorte, é uma pena o distribuidor já não ter mais a versão em preto mas ainda há esperança para a versão transparente:]

referência 000032006
EAN 5603943320065
batente 5mm transparente
blister 50x  = 1,52 € (c/IVA)

Interfer: Rua Morais Soares, 21-C, 1900-339 Lisboa (segunda a sexta feira, 9h às 13h e 14h30 às 18h30)

[CyberX]

Duas lagartas de 60 elos cada: / 2 caterpillar tracks with 60 link each:

60-link tracks by Jorge Pereira, on Flickr

[gads]

It's looking good! 

[oracid]

[quote="oracid"]
Sur la photo, ci-dessous, vous pouvez voir un char de 7,5kg. C'est l'exemple de ce qu'il ne faut pas faire... Trop lourd !
Néanmoins, l'assemblage de plusieurs chenilles peut intéresser plusieurs d'entres vous.
Sur cette photo, on voit bien que j'ai mis la face autocollantes du D joint sur le coté utile des éléments de chenille. Cela augmente énormément la qualité de l'accroche.
Mais bien entendu, avant de découper le D joint, il faut retirer la bande de protection, mais également le film autocollant. C'est un peu délicat, mais avec de bons ongles, on y arrive.
Vous pouvez voir cela sur cette vidéo à 0'48, https://youtu.be/XEsIp5Va41E
L'accroche est tellement bonne que cela peut provoquer un déchenillement lors d'une rotation sur place. Pour éviter cela, il faut que la chenille soit raisonnablement tendue et que le char soit le plus léger possible. Pour éviter cela, on peut également augmenter la largeur du char, mais ce dernier point reste à démontrer.
Concernant le positionnement du D joint en alternance ou non, c'est à chacun de voir en fonction du besoin. Personnellement, aujourd'hui, je fais un grand char avec une seule chenille, et j'ai besoin d'une accroche efficace, je mets donc du D joint de chaque coté des éléments de chenille.[/quote]
<English translation>
In the picture below you can see a 7.5kg tank. It is the example of what not to do ... Too heavy!
Nevertheless, the assembly of several tracks could interest some of you.
In this photo, you can see that I put the adhesive side of the D joint on the useful side of the track elements. This greatly increases the quality of grip.
But of course, before cutting D joint, remove the protective tape, and the adhesive film. It's a bit tricky, but with good nails, you get it.
You can see it on this video at 0'48, https://youtu.be/XEsIp5Va41E
The grip is so good that it may cause track out when tank rotates. To avoid this, it is necessary that the track is reasonably tight and that the tank is as light as possible. To avoid this, one can also increase the width of the tank, but this remains to be seen.
In positioning D joint ring alternately or not, it is for everyone to see depending on the need. Personally, now I made a big tank with a single track, and I need an effective grip, so I put the D joint ring on each side of the track elements.
</>

[CyberX]

Bem, não se compara com o tanque do Oracid mas sobe degraus de 12 cm e rampas de 45º
[It doesn't compare with [member=7016]oracid[/member] tank but climbs 12 cm steps and 45º slopes]



Precisa de um reforço na estrutura e sobretudo na "suspensão" (é a primeira vez que faço alguma coisa com suspensão) mas pelo menos não se desfaz nas mãos do miúdo.
[Needs several reinforcements, mostly at the "suspension" (it's the first time I make something with suspension) but at least it survives the kids hands]

[AVCampos]

Tem muito bom aspecto! Pergunto-me o que tencionarás fazer desse chassis... Ando a investigar plataformas pequenas todo-o-terreno, e, para obstáculos como escadas, poderás experimentar um design como o do PackBot, com dois braços auxiliares à frente.

It looks really good! I wonder what you'll intend to do from that chassis... I'm investigating small all-terrain platforms, and, for obstacles like stairs, you might want to try a design like PackBot, with two auxiliary arms at the front.

[CyberX]

[quote="AVCampos"]
Tem muito bom aspecto! Pergunto-me o que tencionarás fazer desse chassis... Ando a investigar plataformas pequenas todo-o-terreno, e, para obstáculos como escadas, poderás experimentar um design como o do PackBot, com dois braços auxiliares à frente.

It looks really good! I wonder what you'll intend to do from that chassis... I'm investigating small all-terrain platforms, and, for obstacles like stairs, you might want to try a design like PackBot, with two auxiliary arms at the front.
[/quote]

Roadmap:
1. divertir-me / have fun
2. aprender teoria da suspensão / learn suspension theory
3. subir inclinações com mais alguns graus / climb slopes with some more degrees
4. meter um BrickPi, 2 webcams e testar OpenCV (Computer Vision) / add a BrickPi, 2 webcams and test OpenCV (computer vision)

O Packbot não é incompatível com este roadmap não / That Packboat isn't incompatible with this roadmap

[AGarcia]

[member=6806]CyberX[/member]
Está excelente!

[oracid]

Good job, Jorge ! Especially with only 2 motors.

[quote="AVCampos"]
and, for obstacles like stairs, you might want to try a design like PackBot, with two auxiliary arms at the front.[/quote]
Yes, this is a solution. But it is not easy if coded on computer, because sensors etc... I guess this is possible with différentiel gears but could be heavy and intricate.
Anyway, I am looking for something else which have to be automatic.

[CyberX]

O limite parece ser 50.8º / the limit seems to be 50.8º



A rampa é coberta de cortiça, penso que ajuda na aderência. Desligando os motores o tanque desliza para trás / the slope surface is made of cork, I think it helps traction. When the motors are off the tank slides backwards.

Penso que com melhores motores e mais juntas de borracha (2 por elo em vez de 1 em zig-zag) consiga atingir os 55º / I guess with better motors and twice de D-joints (2 per track link instead of one in zig-zag) I can reach the 55º